BlizzCon 2007

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BlizzCon 2007

BlizzCon 2007 News & Articles

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BlizzCon PvP Panel: Battlegrounds

News | Aug. 4, 2007 (1 year ago) | by Kody

The PvP panel saw both Jeff Kaplan and Tom Chilton provide insight into the history of PvP design in World of Warcraft, as well as some things we can expect to see in the future - both on new and old battlegrounds.

It started off with Tom Chilton giving a brief overview of battlegrounds and their place in the World of Warcraft.

Battlegrounds

  • Should be the destination for rewarding, objective-based team PvP.
  • Should always reinforce the Horde vs Alliance theme.
  • BG's must compliment the existing gameworld.
  • BG's are natural extensions of the game.

From there he handed it off to Jeff Kaplan so he could go more in-depth with the design behind each battleground and what they've learned over the course of developing and seeing it played.

Alterac Valley

Alterac Valley - AV for short - was originally going to be a non-instanced, persistent zone with quests and NPC's there for content to suppliment off-peak PvP hours. While the idea was great, Blizzard quickly realized that at the time the demand was far too high to support this style of AV and turned it into an instanced battleground.

Lessons Blizzard has learned from AV:

  • Map differences in terrain and base design can be very cool, but at the same time can be a nightmare for balancing.
  • Players will go AFK to farm honor. This is something Blizzard is adamant about fixing.
  • Honor liberally awarded for simply being there doesn't always work out. Blizzard wants to shift the focus on winning AV, as right now even losing can be more rewarding honor than winning another battleground.
  • NPC's intermixed into PvP can be interesting, but also quirky. There are flaws obvious to Blizzard that they want to fix so that AV can be an enjoyable experience for everyone.

Warsong Gulch

WSG for short, Warsong was the second battleground developed by Blizzard. WSG spent a lot more time in the prototype stages than Alterac Valley did, which allowed Blizzard to really hammer out the gameplay and make it as solid as possible, even when they were playing on a completely flat surface due to the terrain not being finished yet.

The Capture The Flag(CTF) format was chosen early on in the prototyping and using previous game design experience - the designer who created the bases for WSG made sure they were symmetrical and had a very FPS CTF feel to them.

The Birth of Arenas: Gurubashi Catacombs

Not often talked about, this was going to be a 5v5, single elimination deathmatch battleground. Sounds familiar, right? Exactly - it's what Arenas are today; this battleground was actually the third worked on by Blizzard, but during its prototype development, they realized the Arena deathmatch idea and battleground gameplay didn't mix, so they scrapped it.

Lessons learned during the Gurubashi design:

  • Objectives are key to the core gameplay of battlegrounds.
  • Arena idea was cool, but battlegrounds play differently.
  • Arena maps need to be small which Gurubashi was not.

Warcraft III meets Battlefield 1942: Arathi Basin

The inspiration behind Arathi Basin was due in part to the popular games in the office at the time: Warcraft III and Battlefield 1942 - played rabidly by many of the WoW developers. So the idea was simple, design a battleground for their game that meshed some things from both titles. A few of the key things AB brings to the table is that it's still very accessible, even though it's designed for a large number of players. Its simple design allows for players to understand what needs to be done at a glimpse.

The design was also intended to spread people out - taking control of multiple points would be challenging for players, and really gave a great BF1942 feel to capturing points on the map. Points of interest also followed in the footsteps of simple design; everything had simple names - "go to the farm" really meant, go to the farm. There was no need for special names for locations as they all had basic names.

One of the most important learning experiences from AB was that you don't just reward the winners. No one enjoys sitting around in a battleground for 30 minutes for no reward. They continued with this concept in the next battleground they designed, and will no doubt continue it into the future.

Making of Eye of the Storm

Originally Eye of the Storm was going to be a battleground set in Hellfire Peninsula, but while designing the prototype for it, Blizzard was also creating Netherstorm and felt that its concepts fit in a lot more there. The goal of EotS was to put a spin on tried and true battleground gameplay, by merging several core aspects of previous battlegrounds and shaking them up ever so slightly.

An early design of the objectives in the battleground saw a floating island that moved around the map the entire fight; this island is what contained the flag, and while Blizzard liked the idea of it, it didn't play well once they actually started testing the zone. Eventually they settled on the flag being on a strip of land in the middle of the map with a chokepoint on each side.

What the Future Holds

Alterac Valley will be seeing some major changes to its gameplay:

  • Players will only respawn in their safe tunnels if there are no other respawn points in the zone. Otherwise players will respawn at the graveyard nearest to their death.
  • Anti-afk measures are being put in.
    • Players will be able to report someone that is AFK by right clicking on their name on the map.
    • If enough players report someone, the reported player receives a countdown debuff.
    • If the player doesn't enter combat before the countdown debuff fades, another debuff is applied.
    • While the second debuff is active, honor gain for that player is halted completely. The only way to remove this debuff is by entering combat.
  • Honor distribution and balance improvements will be made. A bulk of the honor is going to be shifted to the later portions of the battleground to encourage players to win the battleground.
  • Queueing as a group is going to return to AV.

General battleground improvements:

  • The queue system is going to be improved upon to help hopefully alleviate any possible delays in queue times.
  • Guild battleground queueing is coming. This will allow guilds to queue for a battleground as their guild. A rating system will be used similar to the Arena rating system, and there will be unique rewards offered to those who participate.
  • Chilton wants to change the way the queue system matches you with a battleground because right now Blizzard is limited in the number of battlegrounds that can be added, as it will spread players too thin.
    • You'll queue up for a battleground size - say 15 players, or 10 players - and then be placed into a random battleground of that size with other players in the queue.
  • Siege weapons and destroyable buildings are being added with the expansion. Chilton would also like to explore the possibility of adding them to existing battlegrounds, like Alterac Valley.
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12 months ago

I think it would be cool if they made it so you could go against your own faction as a big bg, or 2 guilds in the same faction goin against each other that would be cool.

for the whole anti bot issue i think they should do the vote thing, and if they enter combat in like 2 min they are ok, if not they get kicked out. or if they get votes, then enter combat, then get votes again they should just get kicked.

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12 months ago

Blizzard keeps making the fundamental mistake of thinking the people who play AV understand how it works. IMO, the #1 problem = ~50-75% of people in a given AV don't even understand how the bg works. They think turtling on D is the best way to get honor because they don't understand diminishing returns. I fail to see how pushing more of the honor to the endgame will help when the people who're screwing the matches up are doing so because *they don't want the matches to end* so they can keep farming kills they don't realize are worthless. And their failure to even acknowledge the issue of "well it's been an hour and I stopped getting honor 40 minutes ago, but I need to stay here for at least another 30 minutes if I want my token" as a problem tells me how much faith I should be putting in their solutions.

Oh and ya, I'm sure it'll be incredibly difficult for the people who're afk'ing (with a bot or otherwise) to kill some rams to keep their honor. Wow. What an amazing solution.

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1 year ago

I would like that 2 minutes before kicked out of queue to be limited to 30 seconds. Witn 2 mins and all noobs pressing hide all the time too many spots stay open in BGs

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1 year ago

I would very much like to see honor gain based on contribution. Not caps, per say, as that will get people really upset, but damage done, healing done to injured targets, time spent in a contested objective, that kind of thing.

All in all, it looks like they've acknowledged most of the issues I've seen, let's hope they can find a good way to deal with them!

avatar
1 year ago
  • Map differences in terrain and base design can be very cool, but at the same time can be a nightmare for balancing.

yea..we all know Ally access to Frostwolf is far easier than Horde's to Stormpike...plus Ally bowmen hit a hell of alot harder than Horde....but my money is on nothing happening in this aspect


Anti-afk measures are being put in.

   * Players will be able to report someone that is AFK by right clicking on their name on the map.
   * If enough players report someone, the reported player receives a countdown debuff.
   * If the player doesn't enter combat before the countdown debuff fades, another debuff is applied.
   * While the second debuff is active, honor gain for that player is halted completely. The only way to remove this debuff is by entering combat

So......most afkers are bots anyhow...not too hard to hit bloodrage and cancel that buff. Ive seen healing/hybrid classes pull wolves to some secluded part of av and bot heal themselves while the wolf keeps them in combat. Feel really crappy right now cause as a lock i don't remember if hellfire puts u in combat...but if it does...rank 1 hellfire will be exploited like crazy

hopefully blizz puts more thought into their afk killing process...they're not even here and i can see alota different ways to combat them

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1 year ago

Blood Rage won't place you in combat anymore after 2.2. :)

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1 year ago

oh yea..ur right...sry bout that

still i see alot of wolve and ram botting

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1 year ago

Future changes sounds good. Hopefully destroyable buildings comes to AV too. That would rock.

I like the guild feature. It sounds like a nice twist for sure. Can be cool with certain guild rewards, and will perhaps make BG's more attractive for PvE players too...

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1 year ago

"Anti-afk measures are being put in.

   * Players will be able to report someone that is AFK by right clicking on their name on the map.
   * If enough players report someone, the reported player receives a countdown debuff.
   * If the player doesn't enter combat before the countdown debuff fades, another debuff is applied.
   * While the second debuff is active, honor gain for that player is halted completely. The only way to remove this debuff is by entering combat."

This is going to be abused left and right. Everyone will be looking for people who aren't where they think they should be: What are you doing in the mine or on defense. Get on offense or I'll keep debuffing you.

And their comments are contradictory: They want to weight honor gains to winning, but they also don't want people get significantly less honor for losing - because you still spent 30 minutes in the BG. If they'd played enough bf1942, bf2, and bf2142, then they'd realize that people should be rewarded for their contribution, as well as the objectives that they gain/win. This means honor for kills, heals, damage, flag caps, etc. When points are awarded - at the proper ratios - for all of your contributions, then people will gravitate to head on gameplay - because head on game play will be what's rewarded.

I'm sorry, but they aren't being honest - they aren't seeing the flaws in their designs, and they aren't giving us an end-result - a real solution that gets to great pvp - this is more like patch notes.

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1 year ago

Note that it says a bulk - not all of the honor. Losing sides will still receive honor, but actually trying to win will result in a lot more honor than losing, unlike right now.